Tuesday, April 12, 2011

A Comparison Students Can Understand


This comparison has nothing to do with the merits of Wagner as a composer, but it is a good way of helping students understand the size of his ego and the amount of power and influence he had. There are also striking physical similarities.

At any rate, my students understood exactly what I was trying to relate, and I thought I'd share it here.

17 comments:

Jason said...

My goodness, I never noticed the similarities before. I wonder if they are related.

Elaine Fine said...

Perhaps from "illegitimate" children on both sides of Trump's family!

Erik K said...

There's a joke in there somewhere about Brunhilde telling herself "You're fired," but I can't quite figure out how to execute it.

Elaine Fine said...

Perhaps "pyred?"

Anonymous said...

No music by dead white men....

Erik K said...

HA! That's it. You're pyred. Awesome!

Lane Savant said...

One important difference, however.

Elaine Fine said...

. . . and which one would that be?

Anonymous said...

Size of ego and amount of power? One could be speaking about Trump or Obama even more, but not Wagner. Even today, Wagner is a small part of the classical music canon, and the classical music canon is a small part of the modern music scene which is mostly pop music, where the real ego and power and money in music currently reside. We classical folks were a backwater, and remain so, if we were honest enough to see our place in the world.

Elaine Fine said...

The message I wanted to give to my students was just how LARGE Wagner loomed in the greater culture. Everyone had an opinion about Wagner. Every composer was influenced in some way by Wagner (some were repelled, some claimed to be repelled, and some, like Brahms, wrote out parts for him).

Wagner, by all accounts, had an immense ego. The only way I could convey the size of his ego--his sense of himself has the ultimate artist (which many argue was true)--to my students was with this comparison. The physical resemblance came only as an afterthought.

Lane Savant said...

Wagner left us some good music
Where would weddings be without the march?

Elaine Fine said...

Actually, the Catholic Church doesn't allow the Bridal Chorus from Lohengrin to be played at weddings. It has something to do with the fact that it is not a religious wedding in the opera (some Lutherans also prohibit it because they consider the wedding in the opera "pagan"). Other people give reasons that have to do with other elements of the opera plot. I have heard rumblings about a broken promise, but the person who was trying to explain it to me didn't know the opera.

The fact that two very large-looming religions would prohibit the "Bridal Chorus" because of its context in an opera (that most people have never seen) shows how large Wagner still looms in the culture.

I play a lot of weddings. Everyone knows "Here Comes the Bride," and everyone who gets married in a church that prohibits using it for weddings, learns that it is forbidden (but they don't really learn why). Now the Pachelbel Canon has actually taken its place as the most asked-for piece of music for the weddings we play.

(In the opera the "Bridal Chorus" happens after the marriage. It is sung to accompany the bride and the groom to the place where they will "consummate" the marriage.)

Michael Morse said...

Disgraceful; and ruinously misguided pedagogy. If you think what's important for students to understand about Wagner is (the size of) his ego, you shouldn't be teaching music, because you cannot get past your own prejudices enough to engage it. For shame.

Elaine Fine said...

. . . But then I play a whole bunch of his music, and the students get hooked, just like me. I do, in spite of myself, love Wagner's music, and some of my students even end up loving it too. It is a good lesson (one of many) that the quality of someone's art is not something that should be judged by the extremes of personality.

What I find students need (at least my students) is a lot of cultural context, particularly when it comes to opera.

I used to read Deems Taylor's "The Monster" to students, but I find it is better to spend the class time it takes to listen to his music. A short description (and comparison) ends up being enough.

Michael Morse said...

Ah; so. Funny, I was gonna mention the Taylor, which is as fine a statement on the abrupt and serious problems involved with a (musically magnificent) schmuck like Wagner as I know. If there's some way you could go back to that, perhaps abridged or excerpted aloud, I'm sure it would be worth it--and, surely, a better pedagogical tactic than trolling for street cred by dragging in a doofus like Trump! Don't you think?

MWM

David Guion said...

I recall hearing about a radio poll maybe 40 years ago to determine the nation's 10 favorite and 10 least favorite composers. Beethoven was the favorite. Schoenberg was the least favorite, and Wagner was number two on both lists! With any luck, a hundred years after his own death, Trump won't be remembered for anything more than TV shows and other things that will no longer be especially influential.

Elaine Fine said...

I'm hoping for Trump's obscurity to precede his death.